Dog leash law on Montara Beach
Posted: 21 February 2008 07:37 AM
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I really wish people would follow the leash requirement on dogs while walking on Montara Beach.  I have two dogs that are always on leash at the beach and every time we go there, unleashed dogs come up to us. It worries me every time because I don’t know if the other dog is friendly. Just this week one of my dogs got into a fight with another large dog that was unleashed. The owner was nowhere in sight until he finally came running over the hill after he must have heard his dog cry out.  All the commotion scares me and my other dog that is only 10 lbs. I don’t want any dog to get hurt, but frankly, if a dog that is unleashed gets hurt by my leashed dog, then I believe the law is on my side.

Here is a copy of part of an article from dogfriendly.com: “Another very big problem arises when a family or person with their leashed dog is taking a relaxing stroll down the beach. Unexpectedly, some off-leash dog comes running fast and furious at their dog. Is the dog running to attack them, or is it just an over-friendly pooch? Either way, chances are that this family is not going to welcome this unpleasant or even potentially dangerous experience. In a world where all it takes is one bad experience to ruin it for everyone else, we all need to pay attention to rules and respect other people and other dogs. If a beach says dogs must be on leash, then please listen and follow the rules.”

If your dog listens to your commands, then fine, that doesn’t bother me that they are off leash. But many dogs ignore there owner’s commands to come and that makes it potentially dangerous. Also, with the recent drownings of dogs and people trying to save their dogs in the surf, people really need to keep their dogs on leash if they can’t control them. Thanks for listening.

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Posted: 21 February 2008 09:26 AM   [ # 1 ]
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Off-leash dogs also pose a problem for families with small children. My children are a little older now but they had their fair share of off-leash dogs approaching them, sniffing them and even jumping them, which can be pretty scary when you are a little guy and come eye to eye with a grown dog. While my children are generally dog lovers and are not afraid of a dog once they had a chance to get to know him, they still do get scared especially when a large dog suddenly appears out of the blue and comes very close to them.  I am worried that I cannot always control the situation and that my kids react based on instinct rather than based on what I have taught them which might scare the dog and end in a bad situation for the child and the dog and its owner.  Having been attacked twice myself when I was a child has made me a little paranoid about this, even though I grew up with a dog.

What drives me crazy is when owners tell me that the dog is friendly. I cannot know that and really don’t care and even if the dog is friendly and likes children it still does not need to approach my child unless I give permission. So, please keep your dogs on a leash where the law requires it and I will continue to make sure that my children learn to treat animals with respect and the love they deserve.

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Posted: 21 February 2008 10:44 AM   [ # 2 ]
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Every time this issue comes up it’s a hot topic.

I’ve had my own encounters with friendly dogs walking my own big dog (who’s not terribly friendly to other dogs) on a leash. I’m stunned by the number of folks walking big dogs off leash, but who simply cannot get their dogs to come when called.

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Posted: 23 February 2008 09:52 AM   [ # 3 ]
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My favorite (sarcasm awry) is running in POST… and ppl have little or no courtesy to restrain their dogs. Yes, you may know ol Sparky won’t bite me… but I don’t know that, and given that you ARE COMPLETELY non-responsive to your dog sprinting up to (or behind me), is just plain rude. Yes, he may not bite me, but if I fall or jump in surprise and hurt myself… I won’t be happy, among other things. I sometimes bring pepper spray, when I’m going on very long runs, and have come quite close to spraying ANY dog that comes within spraying distance, if the owner is not taking any action.

What is most infuriating, is when your poorly-behaved dog, is only matched by your poorly-behaved etiquette and you can’t even apologize or say a word to me. That’s when I need to do a U-turn, and get Sparky to take another linebacker sprint to me… lil’ pepper on the nose might be in good order then… and perhaps some for the dog as well.

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Posted: 23 February 2008 09:58 AM   [ # 4 ]
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I, too, am the owner of a small dog (15 lbs) and I have her on the Coastal Trail between Poplar and Kelly every day.  This is one of the last beach areas where dogs are allowed because it requires leashes.  In California, it is now almost impossible to take your dog anywhere, to any state park, beach, etc. because of people who have let their dogs roam off leash. Off leash dogs disturb the wildlife and soil the area (I have found most people who have their dogs off leash do not pick up after them, simply because they never know when they “go”).  I love dogs but personally, I am afraid of large, off leash dogs.  I have been bitten twice by dogs on the coastal trail (who probably pick up my “fear scent”.)  The owners inevitably say, “My dog has never acted like that before!!”  With flexileashes, even large dogs can roam around and still be under their owner’s control.  I think having any dog off leash in a public area, especially a public area that requires leashing, is highly inappropriate and socially incredibly rude.  There…...I feel better.

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Posted: 26 February 2008 08:50 PM   [ # 5 ]
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Montara Mountain is every bit as bad as Montara Beach when it comes to unrestrained dogs.

I have a theory that irresponsible dog owners will always push one step past what is allowed. Thus, if dogs are allowed on leash, the jerks will let the dog run freely once they believe they are beyond a likely encounter with an enforcement officer. So what is needed is a ban on dogs everywhere. Then dog walkers will at least keep them on leash. If the theory holds.

Carl May

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Posted: 27 February 2008 09:18 PM   [ # 6 ]
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I TOTALLY agree regarding this problem with off leash dogs. It is simply getting out of hand. We live on 3rd St. in Montara and we have pratically given up on walking our dog on the trails of Montara Mtn. Almost EVERYDAY we have to pick our dog up because some dog comes flying up to us. If I had buck for every owner that says “He’s friendly” I’d be rich by now. I’m just glad I have control of my dog in this case.

Why is it the the same people who don’t leash thier dogs are so rude about it as well. I’ve had more than a few people say “This is Montara, we don’t have a leash law”. What? Last time I checked Montara was still in San Mateo County and there is, in fact, a leash law and you are supposed to pick up after your dog as well. These same people will say how beautiful the mountain is and then let fido run all over, harrassing wildife and doing his duty whenever and wherever. We actually call one of the trails “dog crap” trail because it’s so bad there. I know it may be hard to believe but there are far more dogs leashed on the coastal trail than on Montara Mtn. by a long shot.

So please, leash your dog. Leashing your dog says you truly CARE about him/her. It says you are considerate of others. It shows that you realize it’s not just about you. And hey, at the very least, could you leash your dog when you see someone else approaching you? Please.

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Posted: 28 February 2008 09:24 AM   [ # 7 ]
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I found this useful brochure, and I’m thinking of carrying a few copies with me when we walk our dogs: Where Can I Take My Dog

Bottom line, the county leash laws apply EVERYWHERE on the coast, except at the dog park.

I, too, am amazed at the number of people who will let their dog run up to my 140lb Mastiff while telling me their dog is friendly. When I respond, “Mine’s not!” the lightbulb finally goes off.

If your dog approaches people or other animals without having received explicit permission, your dog should be on a leash. As far as I’m concerned, it’s as simple as that.

And don’t get me started on people who don’t clean up after their dogs…

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Posted: 28 February 2008 02:38 PM   [ # 8 ]
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It’s always good to hear from the responsible dog walkers on boards like this. I believe you may have more influence with other less aware dog owners than the rest of us. It seems to me a big part of the issue is to get folks to put their animals on leashes in public places. There have been a couple of dogs that run up and snarl at hikers on Montara Mountain that seemingly pay us no attention at all when they are on leash. Even though we are not a threat to anyone (except maybe the owner of a dog that attacks us and dirt bikers on our trails), a dog, in its own different sensory and social world might, for some reason, perceive us as one and try to protect its owner. A yelled assurance that a dog is “friendly” is meaningless. Some are, a few aren’t.

Beyond the harrassing of wildlife, there have been some severe dog attacks on people and other dogs on Montara Mountain over the years it has been open as a park. Another incident or two, and it probably would not take too much of an uproar to have dogs banned completely. That would be a shame for responsible dog walkers because it is such a great local place to get outside and away from the coastside’s growing urban messes for a few hours. State Parks does not have the budget to have an enforcer up there, so it will be something to be worked out by those of us who use the place.

Carl May

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Posted: 28 February 2008 09:43 PM   [ # 9 ]
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LOVE the attachment with leash laws outlined by the State Parks. I have made copies I intend to hand them out. Why I’ll even leave them at the post/trash can on Kanoff & Farallone for dog owners to pick up.  Every day we try to thank each and every person we run into on our walks who takes the time to be thoughtful of their dogs and others that leash their dogs on the mountain.  It is odd though, that I have not yet seen a single post from anyone defending walking their dogs off leash

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Posted: 29 February 2008 06:57 PM   [ # 10 ]
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Barry reports dogs being off-leash is a big issue every time he posts it. Maybe the MidCoast Community Council members don’t read Coastsider.com. Why don’t people direct these comments to the MCC, and ask them to address the obvious (and long-overdue) need for a dog park? Where is this on the MCC priority list? How difficult would it be to accomplish? The MCC certainly needs to show some results.

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Posted: 29 February 2008 07:18 PM   [ # 11 ]
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According to that great link that was posted here in this thread there are several places in San Mateo County for off leash areas. Here on the coast there’s one at Smith Field at the western end of Wavecrest Rd. and there is Esplanade Beach in Pacifica. Other San Mateo County locations include Cipriani Dog Park in Belmont; San Bruno Dog Run at Evergreen & Maywood; Shores Dog Park in Redwood City; Heather Dog Exercise Area in San Carlos; Bayside Park in Burlingame and the FosterCity Bark Park. I also saw three in Palo Alto and one in Mt. View listed in this pamphlet. They also have 20 parks in San Franciso as well as listings in Marin county and in the East Bay. Seems there are many alternatives right here on the peninsula to explore with your dog so go have fun!

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Posted: 29 February 2008 10:02 PM   [ # 12 ]
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The MCC, through its Parks and Rec Committee has, indeed, looked into a local dog park at some length in past years. Sandy Emerson, who was on the MCC for a term or two, had this as one of her main interests.

So, yes, in the polling of the public on parks and rec desires that took place maybe six or seven years ago and in the committee’s scoping out of various potential park areas on the midcoast, dogs were a consideration. Problem is, the county can ignore the MCC’s committee work and the MCC itself whenever it feels like it—and does whenever locals dare to dance to a different tune from that desired by the county Supes and bureaucrats. (It’s basically the kind of shafting we are getting locally in the LCP revision being directed by Redwood City for the short-term benefit of its developer/contractor friends.) Then, a few years ago, the MCC acquired some members who were not at all as active at their MCC jobs as in the past and who let the longstanding P & R Committee and all it had worked on go dead. This was followed a year or so ago by the county appointing a separate parks committee for the midcoast that would do the county’s bidding and set things up the way the folks in Redwood City wanted it—mainly a parks overview that would facilitate a lot of urban development. (This is just the opposite emphasis of what the greatest numbers of people on the midcoast wanted when polled a couple of times over.) That is the plan for developed parks being looked at now, and the trails part of that plan (which was already worked out in detail by the MCC but ignored) was the topic of Dave Holland, who spoke before the MCC a few days ago.

If you aren’t happy with current plans for a dog facility or lack thereof on the midcoast, talk to the county that dictates what we get here. Don’t blame the MCC of the past that tried to take on the matter, an MCC with no authority or budget to do anything and continuing to be purely advisory to a county government that wishes it would go away.

Carl May

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Posted: 01 March 2008 07:48 AM   [ # 13 ]
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It appears some progress was made, though, given that a dog park does exist in Half Moon Bay, temporary though it may be. Unfortunately, neither the email nor the website of the Committee for a Coastside Dog Park is working. What is the state of play there, does anyone know?

The lack of a local dog park isn’t an excuse for letting one’s off leash dog annoy one’s neighbors, however.

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Posted: 01 March 2008 04:04 PM   [ # 14 ]
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The dog park in HMB is in the mid-southern area of the city, not the unincorporated midcoast county area to the north. If Montara and Moss Beach were on the bayside, they would have another entire city between them and HMB proper. Many of us in those towns don’t feel much of a connection to HMB and tend to think in terms of our own communities.

Carl May

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Posted: 01 March 2008 08:19 PM   [ # 15 ]
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Well if it’s any consolation, Esplanade Beach is closer than Smith Field from Montara.

I have to say though, in the 20 odd years we’ve lived on the coast we’ve lived in every town but El Granada proper (just outside though because the kids went to El Granada Elementary for a few years) I’ve always thought of all of the coastal communities as homogenous, as the “Coastside”. Mostly I guess, since at any time we could (and have been) cut off by weather, etc. We all come together and lend a helping hand wherever needed no matter what community we live in.

Over the years our (now grown) children’s involvement in many activities from sports to scouts to theater have taken us all over the coast to many homes and school communities here. Eventually many of the kids here go to junior high and high school together. I dunno I think this entire coastal area from Montara to Pescadero is pretty special and not something you’ll find in most places. That’s just my opinion. It’s why we live here and came back here when a job transfer took us away for a few years. Wild horses can’t drag us away again. We love the whole damn place warts and all.

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Posted: 02 March 2008 09:25 AM   [ # 16 ]
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Suzy Kristan - 02 March 2008 04:19 AM

I have to say though, in the 20 odd years we’ve lived on the coast we’ve lived in every town but El Granada proper (just outside though because the kids went to El Granada Elementary for a few years) I’ve always thought of all of the coastal communities as homogenous, as the “Coastside”.

Well that’s good to hear - I was beginning to think I was just an oddball. Guess that means there’s just a different reason for it.  :-)

We’ve only been here for 8 years, but we, too, are hoping to stay for the duration.

In the continuing dog park saga, I’ve tried a little harder to contact the folks associated with their website with no success. It looks like I might actually have to pick up the telephone.

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Posted: 02 March 2008 07:42 PM   [ # 17 ]
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It was a beautiful day at Montara State Beach today. We ran into a kindergarten classmate of my daughter’s and they had fun goofing around on the beach.

I had the opportunity to observe a woman bring down two off-leash chocolate labs that she was unable to control, running around stirring up other leashed and better-behaved dogs into a frenzy.  I also got to see her stand there while one of her dogs took a huge dump on the beach. She then continued her walk down the beach as if it had never happened.

Watch where you put your blanket.

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Posted: 03 March 2008 08:26 AM   [ # 18 ]
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Barry Parr - 03 March 2008 03:42 AM

I had the opportunity to observe a woman bring down two off-leash chocolate labs that she was unable to control, running around stirring up other leashed and better-behaved dogs into a frenzy.  I also got to see her stand there while one of her dogs took a huge dump on the beach. She then continued her walk down the beach as if it had never happened.

Did the owners of any of the stirred up dogs say anything to this woman? We attend a drop-in obedience class for dogs with attitudes. We frequently talk through how to deal with situations like this, and our instructors are adamant that it’s our responsibility to be proactive under such circumstances. Avoiding conflict is one of my hobbies, but even I’ve learned to be more assertive where the safety of my dog is concerned.

My bias away from conflict aside, I played a wonderful fantasy through my head this morning while the big guy and I were on our 5am jaunt through El Granada. I imagined handing his leash to the husband, picking up the other dog’s poop in one of the many bags I carry, catching up with the woman and returning her property to her. Oh, may I have that presence of mind when I need it!

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Posted: 04 March 2008 08:18 PM   [ # 19 ]
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Today was a day worth noting. For the first time in I don’t know how long, we went on longer hike on the mountain and only saw LEASHED dogs. They even waited well back from us (we have small dog and they had large dogs) for us to clean up after our guy and move on. It was so pleasant and so rare I had to mention it.

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Posted: 17 March 2008 03:06 PM   [ # 20 ]
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Barry Parr - 03 March 2008 03:42 AM

I also got to see her stand there while one of her dogs took a huge dump on the beach. She then continued her walk down the beach as if it had never happened.

This is typical of badly trained owners (it’s not the dogs fault) this contaminates the beach, spreads diseases, smells and looks foul. My personal favorite is the owners who do pick up after their dogs but then leave the poop in the plastic bag on the beach, now we have poop AND plastic litter on the beach.

Kevin

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Posted: 16 April 2008 08:54 PM   [ # 21 ]
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We just moved to Montara from Pacifica last fall.  Just the other day a huge German Shepard (the largest my husband had ever seen) walked by our house unleashed with two young girls.  My husband said to them that the dog should be leashed, and one of the girls said, “Oh, he’s friendly.”  My husband was so upset that he called the police and asked about the leash law.  The police said there is a leash law, and that’s all that was ever said.

I, too, would be rich for how many times I have heard how friendly their dog is.  I have two young children and coming eye to eye with a dog especially that size scares the daylights out of me.  A couple of weeks ago, I was walking on Farallone Street with my son in his stroller, and a woman with her dog (leashed on a retractable leash) walked right by me.  All of a sudden, the dog jumped up and bit me on the back of my thigh.  I was shocked, and the owner was shocked too saying he had never done anything like that before.  I did nothing to provoke it.  I was just walking along talking to a friend who also had her son in a stroller.  Fortunately, there was no blood, and I asked the owner to pay for my pants which she did.  I’m glad she wasn’t a rude person and was very apologetic for her dog’s actions.

As far as the poop situation goes, it’s very sad.  There are such responsible dog owners out there, but there are those few that give them all bad names.  They just don’t seem to care and frankly they feel it’s their dog’s right to do whatever they want.  I would just love to go to the beach with my children without having to worry about every step we take.  Dragging dog poop into the car or home on our shoes is so undesirable.  You just can’t get the smell out.

Anyway, that’s just my two cents.  Thank you to all the responsible dog owners out there….....and to the rest of you, please have some respect for others and for the environment.

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Posted: 17 April 2008 04:44 PM   [ # 22 ]
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Yet another unleashed dog running up to us walkers on Montara Mountain this morning and angrily barking at us between growls. Yes, of course, a woman in the group of people walking with the dog yelled that it was friendly as it ran toward us.

No big deal, but I wonder if such people know how close they are to a badly excalated situation. I’m very wimpy and would never do anything to harm an animal unless the animal made physical contact in an attack. Don’t believe animals should suffer because of the failures of their humans. But my hiking buddy has a much more touchy trigger, and he was within seconds of kicking that threatening dog to Kingdom Come (it was that close to him). If he does that, he will then get even more angry because he likes dogs. He just might take off on humans he believes to be responsible. Don’t want to see that; it would not be good for anyone.

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Posted: 17 April 2008 04:45 PM   [ # 23 ]
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“badly excalated situation”

Obviously should be “escalated.” Typing gets even worse as I get older.

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Posted: 29 April 2008 11:42 AM   [ # 24 ]
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A classmate’s leashed dog was attacked by a loose dog last week, making defense the topic at our obedience class this past Saturday. In light of some of the experiences related here, I thought sharing a couple of the ideas might be helpful.

One suggestion was to carry citronella spray, which comes in a small can with a belt attachment. Our instructor’s dogs find the odor interesting, so it may be more of a distraction than a deterrent, but even that could be helpful. The use of pepper spray was discouraged, since it may cause injury to the dog.

Another strategy is to carry a bag, roughly tall kitchen garbage size, containing 5-10 soda cans with 5 pennies in each, tops taped closed. The goal is to allow enough room for the cans to move a lot and make a lot of noise to distract the animal. You can shake it, throw it onto the ground between you and the animal, or even hit an attacker with it if really necessary. Our instructor uses a canvas bag with a strap that she slings over her shoulder.

I realize that carrying yet more stuff with you on a hike because of uncontrolled dogs is a burden, but it’s better than a bite.

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Posted: 29 April 2008 03:10 PM   [ # 25 ]
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Yet another run in the POST with unleashed dogs and the owners that refuse to even show ownership nor discourse as their 50 lb+ dog sprints up to me to decide on acceptance.

Is it inappropriate for me to bring my camera to POST and just take pictures of ppl (since I surmise 90% of the walkers are a mere blocks away) and post on forums such as these.

Come on ppl. The half of it, isn’t the leashing, but the no gall reaction when your dogs run rampant on walkers, joggers, and other dogs. I’ll chip in $50 to subsidize a CSO to come out on a weekend and just throw out citations like Jiffy Pop on a nuclear burner.

[disclosure: dog owner, too]

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Posted: 24 June 2008 07:21 PM   [ # 26 ]
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I know a few coastsiders who get concerned that their dogs may misbehave, so they leash them, kennel them, etc, in hopes that they’ll calm down and behave better.  Unfortunately it just doesn’t work like that.  Dogs are like children, and they need to be taught proper social behavior.  How can they learn in isolation?

Most dogs need a lot of exercise and stimulation.  This is best done in an area where the dog can run freely, playing fetch or going on a long hike.  Without that exercise and stimulation, dogs can indeed become a problem.  This is why I walk our dog off-leash whenever possible.  He’s great with people, kids, other dogs, he stays on the trail, is under good voice control, and is a fun, well behaved boy.

We got him as a pup and spent HOURS every day making sure he was properly socialized.  We took him around people and other dogs as much as humanly possible.  He was never kenneled or restrained from other dogs or people, instead we trained him.  Our dog knows better than to misbehave now because we gave him the opportunity to experience situations and learn what was OK and what wasn’t OK.  Now he knows it so well, he rarely needs corrections from us.  In fact, he’s a very good decision maker about who is OK to approach and who isn’t.

I’ve never understood why running into off-leash dogs is such a problem with some people.  In fact, most of the dog people who complain about other people letting their dogs run off-leash are the ones whose pet has aggression, fear, or other behavioral problems.  Thus you keep your dog on leash because you know full well your dog is unpredictable and potentially dangerous.  Why should we be punished for that?  We socialized our dog, and you should do the same with yours.

If your dog is a rescue or something, that’s another story, and I understand and respect the difficulties you might have when getting an adult dog that may have been abused or left in isolation or something.  But nonetheless, we worked very hard to keep our dog friendly with other dogs and friendly with other people, and we want to walk him off leash in open areas.  If your leashed dog is aggressive, please don’t put it on me to have to take responsibility for your dogs unpredictable behavior, I’ve done my part by training a dog from a pup who can behave himself beautifully.  Have you??

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Posted: 24 June 2008 09:58 PM   [ # 27 ]
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Forgot this in the last post.

Some of you sound like you just plain dislike dogs, or you have fear issues with dogs.  I’m sorry to hear that, our dog has brought us great joy since we’ve had him, he’s a valued family member for us.  But if you’re afraid of dogs, please don’t take it out on me or my pet.  One lady at the beach threw a large stick at my dog (she hit him) because he walked by her.  That’s just not right.  He didn’t do anything wrong, he was politely walking with me and she freaked and shouted obscenities at me and the dog, then threw/hit him with the stick.

Remember that dog attacks are rare.  In fact, you stand a much greater risk of being injured or killed on the 15 min drive to Montara Beach (or crossing the road to get there) than you do being injured by a dog that walks by you in a public area with his/her owner.  Please keep it in perspective.  If it’s some stray or a poorly socialized pitbull that got out of their backyard and is charging your or your baby, then I can understand the frustration.  But on a hike on the beach??

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Posted: 24 June 2008 10:09 PM   [ # 28 ]
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Keith, I commend you for the work you’ve done to ensure you have a well-behaved dog. As long as your well-behaved dog stops and backs off when I tell it to, does not approach me and my dog unbidden, and returns to you on your command without fail, I have no quarrel with you. Many people have not instilled that level of behavior in their dogs, and that’s the problem.

Thanks for appreciating the challenges that those of us with rescues, particularly very large rescues, face. We’ve got the dogs that other folks failed to socialize properly. You can help us by ensuring that your off-leash dog doesn’t approach our leashed dog uninvited. The more positive experiences we can give our dogs, the quicker they’ll shed the baggage they came with, and the better life will be for all of us.

The more I learn in obedience classes and working with a trainer, and the more I invest in training and in correcting our dogs’ less desireable behaviors, the easier I slip into a judgemental frame of mind when it comes to other folks and their dogs. Resisting that is yet another challenge.

I’m sorry about your experience with the lady on the beach. Her behavior sounds unreasonable. Please note, however, that’s not the sort of situation that most of the folks who have posted here have expressd concern about.

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Posted: 25 June 2008 01:23 PM   [ # 29 ]
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Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 02:21 AM

Dogs are like children, and they need to be taught proper social behavior.  How can they learn in isolation?

Likewise, many dog owners are like children, but they can’t be taught proper social behavior.

Keith, you can’t be serious. For one, it’s law. You are like a responsible gun owner who says “I don’t need to register my gun. It’s always on lock. I keep it safe, and so on.”

I can drive my car 70 MPH down Devil’s Slide, and not get into an accident. Likewise, how do expect ppl to practice being able to drive 70MPH on the slide without trying. My dog is the safest thing off of a leash, ESPECIALLY with small children (sans a lick in the face). But you can’t leave this open for interpretation and gray area. SHE BELONGS ON A LEASH. Period. I socialized her with ppl, kids and dogs in classes and in my/others homes, not off-leash in a recreation area.

Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 02:21 AM

This is why I walk our dog off-leash whenever possible.

Shocker. I assume you are doing it in “dog designated” areas, right?

Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 02:21 AM

I’ve never understood why running into off-leash dogs is such a problem with some people.

The mere fact that 1% or 10% or whatever the number is, don’t have control over their dog. And when you are walking, running, and/or riding in POST or on the beach… and some dog comes around the corner running after you. You don’t know what the premise is…

Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 02:21 AM

In fact, most of the dog people who complain about other people letting their dogs run off-leash are the ones whose pet has aggression, fear, or other behavioral problems.

You are VERY wrong on one count here.

Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 02:21 AM

I’ve done my part by training a dog from a pup who can behave himself beautifully.  Have you??

Nice. The law is the law…. and if they gave me the power with a ticket book in my hand. I’d cite you each and everytime.

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Posted: 25 June 2008 01:28 PM   [ # 30 ]
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Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 04:58 AM

In fact, you stand a much greater risk of being injured or killed on the 15 min drive to Montara Beach (or crossing the road to get there) than you do being injured by a dog that walks by you in a public area with his/her owner.

Keith, you throw out quite a bit of “facts”. Love to see the data backing this up… as well as your “fact” that most ppl whom have issue with off-leash dogs have aggressive pets of their own.

Don’t bother, I know you don’t. On the latter… I’d assume… (note usage of “assume”) that most of those ppl are non-dog owners to begin with, much less have had bad experiences.

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Posted: 25 June 2008 07:35 PM   [ # 31 ]
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Kevin Barron - 25 June 2008 08:28 PM
Keith Anderson - 25 June 2008 04:58 AM

In fact, you stand a much greater risk of being injured or killed on the 15 min drive to Montara Beach (or crossing the road to get there) than you do being injured by a dog that walks by you in a public area with his/her owner. 

Keith, you throw out quite a bit of “facts”. Love to see the data backing this up… as well as your “fact” that most ppl whom have issue with off-leash dogs have aggressive pets of their own.

Surely you can’t be serious.

Here are some facts (I believe you can corroborate these with the CDC):
http://www.dogexpert.com/FatalDogAttacks/fataldogattacks.html

To summarize there are 20-30 reported fatalities resulting from dog bites in the US anually.  That’s a synopsis of several years of data, the site can give you accurate numbers for the last few years.

There are a lot more facts if you care to read them.  Although they don’t support your rant so maybe you’d prefer to ignore them:
http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%20Statistics/DogBiteStatistics.html

A few interesting tidbits:
“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention document that a chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite than an unchained dog.”

and if I remember correctly, something like 65-70% of the dog bites occur on their owner’s property when they’re left running loose (not in the house, confined in a yard, or tied down in some way).  That leaves minority of bites from a combo of restrained- on- and off-leash dogs off the owners property, with 4-15% of the bites from dogs off the property on or off leash.

Here are statistics for 2005 from auto accidents:
Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States—one death every 13 minutes.

Put it in perspective, dude.  If you care to quibble on facts, I can dig some up about leashed dogs tending to have more aggression issues, it’s true.  And before you get on your high-horse about “even one dog bite…” I would simply ask you if you EVER exceed the speed limit while driving in any situation by even 1mph?  How many accidents or deaths is speeding more likely to cause?  Statistically… it’s 500,000 times more likely to happen.

Most importantly, I cannot guarantee the behavior of a single dog or person, ever, not matter what.  However I will say that I’m more confident in my off-leash dog not hurting anyone than many of the on-leash dogs whose owners are worried about having contact with other dogs or people.  I also can’t guarantee that I won’t be out for a walk and inadvertantly come close enough to an on-leash dangerous dog that I won’t get hurt.  Should they be villified too?

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Posted: 29 June 2008 11:59 AM   [ # 32 ]
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While these facts are all quite interesting, they miss a key point. Allowing your uncontrolled dog to annoy people is like talking too loudly on your cell phone in a restaurant. Your behavior prevents me from enjoying my walk. It doesn’t matter why I have my dog on a leash or why I don’t want your dog approaching me. The simplest way to ensure everyone’s safety and enjoyment is to ensure your dog is under your control at all times.  For the vast majority of people and dogs, that means keeping the dog on a leash.

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Posted: 29 June 2008 01:14 PM   [ # 33 ]
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I really do respect people not wanting strange dogs to charge them or rile up their kids or their own pets, our hard work with our own dog demonstrates that we respect other people’s privacy and safety on walks.  I don’t find that any more acceptable than you do.

So it’s not that I missed your point, I just think your point was understood and I had nothing to say about it.  While I can’t guarantee you that you’ll never be annoyed by a dog you see on a trail, I did want to point out that there are lots of very responsible dog owners out there, and while it’s unfortunate that a few bad owners or bad experience can sour us to certain situations, not *ALL* off leash dogs are necessarily bad, so please don’t hate all of us other dog owners, even those who are trying their best to prevent problems and are indeed very responsible in their handling of situations.

And by the way, I really do respect your taking on rescue dogs, they are living a good life with you and may otherwise be put down by a less patient and caring person.  That would be really unfortunate.

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