What does Nimby really mean?

Ok Barry, you really want to stir up the pot ;)

I’m not sure NIMBY folks would be portrayed as “those who insist on developers follow the law”. If that were so, then wouldn’t it be LDCBH: Lawful Developers Can Build Here?

I think the perception of coastsider NIMBYs is just that: Do not come here at all and perform any development in my backyard. What NIMBY folks actually intend to occur might be different than that, I’m just stating what the perception is. I think the issue of following the law can be seen from both sides, it is just how they use the law for their own agenda. And, it is clear to me that laws driven by the coastal commission are not black and white, and so using that tool to avoid development can only last so long. Ray

In my opinion, people who use the term “NIMBY” on the Coastside are generally doing it because they wish to discredit legitimate concerns for environmental laws. In that way, they hope advance their own development agendas which, in many but not all cases, will result in personal financial gain.

Comment 3 by Barry Parr  on  Oct 02  at  9:52pm  •  All my comments • 

Ray and Kevin, you’re still talking about motives. My point is that I don’t care whether someone is going to make a profit, or if someone else’s only concern is whether their view is being blocked. Those are both ad hominem arguments.

No law is black or white. That’s why we have courts and lawyers. That’s the reason everything is so contentious here and that the answers will often be far from clear. Take a look at the Boys and Girls Club. They graded the property they lease from the city three months ago, and they still haven’t gotten a definitive OK from a city council that is very sympathetic to them.

The only thing I could possibly profit from certain developments coming to fruition are: A new middle school, or a new boys and girls club, or a better hwy 92 to hwy 1 connector, or perhaps a better coastal trail, etc..

I read that article and proposition 90 and it is all pretty confusing. At this point I would vote no on it because it is not clear to me how/if it would negatively impact local governments on construction of roads, or other infrastructure needs.

Barry, your article starts off with “Who are NIMBYs” which is what I was responding to.

As to whether I am a NIMBY or not: I actually want both, conservation and, development that has a positive impact on our community, and no more. Ray

The first time a group of neighbors in Miramar appeared at the San Mateo Board of Supervisors meeting to appeal a manufactured home on a sub-standard lot with a huge tree and no public hearing, a Realtor called us NIMBYS. I remember thinking that if you don’t care about what is happening in your own back yard then who is going to care. If you love your home, want the best for the Coastside to maintain and enhance the beauty which surrounds you I guess you/I earn that label. The one thing I do know is that no one who appeared that day on behalf of the appeal had any personal gain to achieve by being there but a great deal to lose. The new homeowners saved the tree (can still be seen on Mirada Rd, County side), improved the design and the County had to acknowledge that building on a sub-standard lot required a public hearing not just a piece of paper announcing construction with no notice. lani ream

Who better to say “no” to damaging changes to local environments and communities than the people who live in them. Being called a “NIMBY” by developers should be taken as an appellation of honor by local people seeking authority over their own lives.

People need to read all of Proposition 90. Hint: the Supreme-Court-approved abuse of eminent domain that allows government to take property from one private entity to give to another private entity is being used as a stalking horse for something else. One should never trust complicated, multi-part ballot initiatives in California based on what is emphasized in their campaigns.

Carl May

Barry,

while I think it was good to start a conversation about what makes a Nimby a Nimby, (and as you’ve seen by comments, there are varying opinions), what I think you touched on is much bigger. And that is, what does someone from one point of view call someone from another point of view.

Sadly as a society we have stepped away from communication, discussion, and compromise. We have drifted to total annihilation of opposing points of view and total dominance for our point. When one side hears from another side, the approach is to insults and name call the other point of view with as negative a term as possible. For some reason using negative terms to define opposition like term “Nimbyite” is intended to dismiss any other views, other than desired one, as having no validity.

“Nibmy” is intendance to insinuate a selfish point of view regardless of logic. On the other hand “developer” is used with the same intention to insinuate disregard.

Society suffers and doesn’t get the best results possible when 2 sides are more interested in eliminating opposing points of view instead of listening.

I personally have very firm views and opinions on things but I’m not afraid to discuss them or debate them. That doesn’t mean I will change from my point or that I can change someone else’s, but I know that at least all the data will have an opportunity to be heard.

We all would be better off if we all bit our lip more often, listened, then responded with logical arguments against the points presented. I’m always amazed at some of the discussion when a response is not a rebuttal but just chapter 2 of the great pontification book. If folks have that much desire to preach, they should get ordained.

I’m not sure if NIMBY is meant to be insulting, but I guess it would depend on who is saying it. Just like the recent term I heard used on another thread on this site: “Pesky gnat” I think was the term. Ray

Ray, you are not sure that Nimby is meant to be insulting ??????? Wow !!!! Trust me, it is not indented to be a compliment or a term of endearment No one that exhibits behavior or holds values what others call Nimby, ever refer to themselves as Nimby. That term is used by those that hold opposing values and Nimby is absolutely intended to be insulting and is definitely intended to demean anything that a “Nimbyite” might say. It insinuates that those opinions have no value. Whereas your ”pesky gnat” insults only those darn things that won’t let me eat a hot dog in peace in the summer.

Bob, Didn’t you read Carl’s post above? He thinks being called a NIMBY is a thing to be proud of. Also, if the whole community was of the same attitude about preventing development on the coastside, then my guess is that being called a NIMBY would be something to be proud of. However, if you knew the person calling you that name has a different opinion than yours, then you would probably take it as derogatory. That was my point. Ray

Ray, Since we are wondering if I read prior postings, I have to ask if you possible did not read my first posting completely. I initially said Barry touched on a bigger issue than who calls who a Nimby. That word just happened to be the most conveniently term to explain my point. I took no position on it or any development stand. I said “When one side hears from another side, the approach is to insults and name call the other point of view with as negative a term as possible” How someone personally fells about a name was not any part of my discussion. It strictly was that opposing points use insulting terms that they believe are negative in order to insinuate or demean the opposing point of view.

And my entire reason for commenting to Barry was that I don’t believe that is productive. As I said “Society suffers and doesn’t get the best results possible when 2 sides are more interested in eliminating opposing points of view instead of listening.”

Bob, I agree with you that insults and naming calling are not productive and that they should be avoided. And I do agree that sometimes we should all “bite our lip” more often, as you say. I’m just not sure whether the term NIMBY is actually insulting, because as Barry states in his post, he is asking whether we are all NIMBYs based on a given definition. And the fact is that the definition is not clear. Hope that makes sense. Ray

Comment 13 by Mary Bordi  on  Oct 06  at  10:06am  •  All my comments • 

Ray Olsen says

And the fact is that the definition is not clear.

That holds true with a lot of words that come into discussion here on coastsider:

Environmentalist Developer Wetland Farming No growth Invasive species Endangered species Conservative Liberal Park Highway Road

I could go on and on and on. As long as we don’t have the same definitions or can see the difference in the perception others have of words like this, we certainly aren’t going to be able to come to any agreement!

However, this is a good place to get a start at finding out what others perceive to be the definitions of such terms!

As Ray says above,

Hope that makes sense.

Comment 14 by Barry Parr  on  Oct 06  at  12:25pm  •  All my comments • 

Is Nimby an insult? Would the person being called a Nimby or Nimbyite accept being labeled that way? If not, then it’s likely to be an insult. The same thing applied to “no growther”.

For that reason, the words enviromentalist and developer aren’t insults, although they can be used with that intention in some circles. Blogger falls into that category as well.

I’ve tried to come up with a term in common use that has the same insulting intent as “Nimby” or “no growther”, but without much luck. Developer is the word that is usually used, but it’s descriptive and doesn’t apply to the local political base who support them.

Let me try an analogy to try and make my point. In the bay area if you say you are a “Giants Fan” most people would react to this in a positive way. At the very least, you would not be afraid to state you are a Giants Fan. But, if you were in LA and you said you were a Giants fan you would most likely get an entirely different reaction. Same goes for if you were to state you were a Dodgers Fan here in the Bay area. And for some diehard fans, they might even imply that the label is insulting. Ray

Comment 16 by Barry Parr  on  Oct 06  at  1:39pm  •  All my comments • 

It’s offensive and just plain bad manners to label a person in a way that they find insulting.

Barry,

You are right. And in a professional setting, that can fall into the harassment category.

But since there seems to be a need (not necessarily productive or right) to have some term that show a righteous indignation about an opposing point of view that is intended to demean / insult that point of view, why don’t we all adopt a standard set of insults to show level of frustration with opposing points. If everyone used a standard we don’t have to try to invent new ones or try to make a neutral term into a negative one. Such as, blog is negative if it’s not agreeing with a point, but quality news if it is.

Maybe we should use a color scheme. Say

Green – Low level of frustration. - Not enough to want to continue arguing, but enough frustration to want to indicate displeasure with view point.

Blue – Guarded level of frustration. - Disturbed about implications of point of view and concerned that there might be falsehood in the arguments and want to send message that attention is not going away.

Yellow - Elevated level of frustration – Very disturbed and know that there are false claims being made which need to be corrected and rebutted before they improperly get solidified as facts.

Orange - High level of frustration. – Significant false claims and data manipulation to paint a new truth or re-write history can not be allowed to stand and continued attempts need to be made until the truth stands on it’s own..

Red - Severe level of frustration. – On a crusade with manifesto and calculator in backpack.

So a statement of “…. The blog site for the green opinions within our community….” Or “….the orange statements that there is no impact from……” are much clearer than trying to use a word to imply sometimes a negative, sometimes a positive and at other time a neutral position. That confuses readers. With a standard set of words used by all, regardless which side of a view point one is on, the appropriate level of indignation can be made and understood by all parties.

PS. Before I get a tons of righteous indignation replies, this was intended to add some humor to a serious subject.

How about we stick to the “No-Growther” label ;)

If you don’t like colors and insist that a name calling is needed. I suggest “Close-Minded” because that at least can be used by both sides.

Regarding Bob Ptacek’s proposed color alerts:

I would say that I am at stage “yellow” most of the time, except when I read the HMB Review. Then I switch to “orange.”

How about we stick to the “over-developer” label?

Bob did succeed in his intent to bring humor to the subject. I’m not too convinced that the smiley on Ray’s post mitigates anything.

Comment 22 by Mary Bordi  on  Oct 06  at  7:32pm  •  All my comments • 

Barry Parr said: “It’s offensive and just plain bad manners to label a person in a way that they find insulting.”

I hope this was supposed to be humorous…?

But I have a hunch Barry is being serious. And I agree that one should not label a person in a way that they will find insulting.

Let’s not carry political correctness to the extreme, though. Some folks seem to be offended by just about anything! How is one to know in advance that seemingly accurate words should not be used to describe that individual?

For example: blonde, boy, girl, comrade, tourist, doctor, senior, small, large, foreigner (and any proper term for any number of ethnicities…).

Mary, That was exactly my point! Thank you for getting it.

Mary

while “How is one to know in advance that seemingly accurate words…..” is true, but “Nimby” and “No-Growther” are not words. They are created to explain/support a position or opinion and therefore there is clear intented meaning. They are not the same as attributes like blond, short, skinny etc. Saying how could I know that it would be taken wrong is not a defense when clear indented meaning is the sole purpose for it’s use.