The essence of legal liberty in the United States of America is the ability to walk down the street without having to provide identification to anyone.  The founders added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution to enshrine that right.  That’s what most of us thought we were protecting when we joined WWII.  An official of the State is not entitled to require us to present identification unless that official has a rational, legally defensible probable cause.  Probable cause is not “just a hunch.”

Now, the Senate has granted the President the ability to commandeer corporations to spy on all of us based on a hunch that a handful of us may be saying something illegal.  Mussolini, the founder of 20th Century fascism, defined same as the “merger of the corporation and the state.”  Fait accompli.

Kyle Hence sent a message to thousands of people last week about the dismemberment of liberty in the USA.  He included his email address and telephone number.  I provide it intact to you at my website since it is too large for the forum program here.  Just click the link below or go to http://www.debocracy.org.

Deb Lagutaris

RIP: US Constitution and Rule of Law

The only thing that distinguished the USA from most of the rest of the world was the Constitution, and now we don’t have that.

I keep thinking of a line from Jay Leno’s monologue a few years ago:  “I hear that we’re writing a new Constitution for Iraq.  Why don’t we just give them ours?  It’s served us well for over 200 years, and we’re not using it any more.”

It’s depressing how few people (on a percentage basis) are up in arms over the corrupt government we have in D.C.  I reiterate my statement that everyone who voted for the USA Patriot act should be thrown in jail for violating their oath of office, in which they swore to “uphold the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign <u>and domestic</u>”.

“In a Democracy, the people get the government they deserve - Alexis de Tocqueville.”

As difficult as it is for many Libertarians to tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans,  the Patriot Act reauthorization roll-call vote makes it somewhat easier.

This exchange exemplifies our transition from a government of laws to a government of men:

Conyers: Could the President order a suspect buried alive?

Yoo: Uh, Mr. Chairman, I don’t think I’ve ever given advice that the President could order someone buried alive. . .

Conyers: I didn’t ask you if you ever gave him advice. I asked you thought the President could order a suspect buried alive.

Yoo: Well Chairman, my view right now is that I don’t think a President . . . no American President would ever have to order that or feel it necessary to order that.

Conyers: I think we understand the games that are being played.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/yoo_we_dont_make_claims_of_inf.php

Leonard,

Check out the votes on the final version of the reauthorization:

http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/p_congress.htm

Both faces of the Republicrats stink out the place. If the PA is a big deal to you, check out how our current presidential candidates voted and how their competitors in the recent primaries voted.

The Bill of Rights was kludged onto the Constitution, somewhat reluctantly, as a compromise measure to get all thirteen states to ratify it. A hot book last year was Woody Holton’s “Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution.” The revered “framers” were not about what your civics teacher said they were about, and much of the motivation behind the creation of the Constitution was financial and in favor of stronger and more centralized federal control to get rid of what some framers called “an excess of democracy” under the Articles of Confederation.

Leonard Woren - 20 July 2008 04:50 PM

The only thing that distinguished the USA from most of the rest of the world was the Constitution, and now we don’t have that.

I keep thinking of a line from Jay Leno’s monologue a few years ago:  “I hear that we’re writing a new Constitution for Iraq.  Why don’t we just give them ours?  It’s served us well for over 200 years, and we’re not using it any more.”

It’s depressing how few people (on a percentage basis) are up in arms over the corrupt government we have in D.C.  I reiterate my statement that everyone who voted for the USA Patriot act should be thrown in jail for violating their oath of office, in which they swore to “uphold the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign <u>and domestic</u>”.

“In a Democracy, the people get the government they deserve - Alexis de Tocqueville.”

As difficult as it is for many Libertarians to tell the difference between Democrats and Republicans,  the Patriot Act reauthorization roll-call vote makes it somewhat easier.

By in large, regardless of how you look at it… the “Constitutional glass” it at least 95% full. Be real here…. the “Got Rights?” rhetoric should be left for overly-motivated 19-year old Berzerklee liberal arts tree sitters.

I guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this.  You’re not reading the same stuff that I’m reading…

So be it, and agreed. Having close to 5 years experience of working with/around/within the Patriot Act for a couple Fortune 500 companies, not mention working directly with the SEC and NASD via petitions/guidance/amendments… I think I understand the TRUE intentions of the act.

Kevin Barron - 30 July 2008 04:53 AM

So be it, and agreed. Having close to 5 years experience of working with/around/within the Patriot Act for a couple Fortune 500 companies, not mention working directly with the SEC and NASD via petitions/guidance/amendments… I think I understand the TRUE intentions of the act.

WTF>>>

What is the true intention?
ANY removal of liberty from the American People is wrong.
I think the people here are talking about how the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendment effects you and me not your F500 clients.
I think I understand the TRUE intentions of the Patriot Act and the FISA Amendment. It is really simple. I think Bush said it best “The Constitution is just a piece of paper.” Remove the power of the people and place it in the hands of the government. That is it. It is that simple. 
Let’s not forget. Every time our President removes power from the people it is almost impossible for the people to regain that power.

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
Benjamin Franklin

Here are a few links that reinforce what I just wrote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmc60JmaLbE
Olbermann interviews Jonathan Turley a constitutional law expert who rips Bush a new as#$&#xle;, pointing out how many of his cronies are former criminals who have no respect for the law or the Constitution of the United States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2gs-NUtc&feature=related
Olbermann again.