Well our lawsuit is in action, but there are a couple of pilots who are still violating out of pattern,

low flying (safety) & noise pollution issues.

Anyone who can help us out will benefit us all.

Thanks for seeking “justice”!!

carole

P.S.  I recently got a shocking e-mail that told me to hurry up & “die” & leave the planes alone!!  Can you
now believe what we’re dealing with??

It’s called “moving into the nuisance”.  good luck.

Carole;
Your lawsuit is a joke.  The airport, along with it’s attendant noise was around long before you bought your house.  You obviously don’t know anything about airports or flying, or you wouldn’t be filing such a spurious lawsuit.  The aircraft flying into HMB are required to fly the pattern the way they do because of the radar site situated on the Southwest point of the area near the runway.  Flying aircraft, especially higher performance aircraft, requires them to make different pattern approaches, and sometimes straight-in approaches.  Nothing in an aircraft’s pattern flying is precisely “in the pattern” at all times due to piloting, wind, aircraft type, etc.  Therefore a given AC can be 1/4 mile off either direction, and can be well within the rules, as long as the requisite altitude is flown, again within limits.  Lawsuits have been filed around the country by many disgruntled “anti-plane-noise” types, and few have prevailed, thank you very much.  If you can’t handle the noise, leave.
Greg Ward
A very noisy Pilot, and owner of Lancair Legacy N178RG being built very loud as we speak.

I suspect that some pilots are not being very considerate of the neighbors around HMB Airport, but I also suspect it may be difficult to establish this. 

Having said that, Greg has clearly established that at least one pilot has a very poor attitude toward the community surrounding the airport. If local pilots can’t to respect their neighbors, they may not like how things turn out in the long run.

Having said that, Greg has clearly established that at least one pilot has a very poor attitude toward the community surrounding the airport. If local pilots can?t to respect their neighbors, they may not like how things turn out in the long run.

It’s not one pilot having a poor attitutude towards the community.  It’s some in the community not realizing that the airport and it’s users are part of the community.  Airplanes make noise, a fact well known when someone buys or builds a house in proximity to an airport.  My whole point was that with this knowledge, if there are issues with aircraft noise, then the home shouldn’t have been acquired in the first place.  Lawsuits aimed to stop this noise, are spurious, like so much of the other nonsense lawsuits that occur in this State.
Greg

Again, it’s called “moving to the nuisance”. The airport and aircraft have been there since WII, thank god.  How can anyone move into an airport location and complain about noise from aircraft?  What were you thinking?  All the noise would disappear when you bought your home?
I love aircraft noise.  I’ve worked on them for over 40 years and still run outside to see what’s flying over,  as do a number of my neighbors.
If you don’t care for the noise MOVE.

The question is not whether the airport is noisy. Of course it is.  The question is whether inconsiderate pilots are noisier than necessary and whether they’re violating regulations in the process. I have no opinion on that matter, except that I think it would be difficult to establish. My point was the Greg’s response indicated a certain lack of consideration.

I grew up on an Air Force fighter training base.  HMB Airport is small potatoes, but I wouldn’t live too close to its flight path. I’m just saying a little consideration is in order.

Barry, I am also an Air Force Brat.  I lived on bases all of my life until 18.  We had a jet test stand less than 1/4 mile from where we lived on one base.  24/7 engines running some days.  If you know anything about aircraft, you must know that when a pilot is setting up to land, the last thing on his mind is how many decibels he is producing for someone scratching around in their back yard.  This is typical of the griping that I have seen on the Coast and other places for years. complain, but no solutions or answers.
Greg

I found out about this discussion from the HMB Review discussion board entitled: “It’s just a matter of time - Crash Landing near HMB”:

http://talkabout.hmbreview.com/topic.php?t=3564&c=7

and wasn’t aware that there was a problem until reading these posts.  Not only do we live right next to the HMB Airport, but I am the daughter & sister of small airplane pilots, and spent the majority of my weekends at the HMB Airport, growing up.  We were not aware of any aircraft that are breaking the rules - and as Barry points out, it would be difficult to establish.  As with anything, a few rotten apples can spoil the barrel for the rest of the law-abiding citizens, and I would think (hope) that the majority of pilots are obeying the rules.  Some would have the airport shut down on account of the scofflaws, but I wonder if that is as appropriate as say, shutting down a hospital because one or two of the physicians on staff were incompetent.  Certainly, if we witnessed a blatant violation of the rules at the airport, we would report them. I would like for those who ARE breaking the laws to be caught and punished, so that there shouldn’t be any controversy at all….though when it comes to noise (unavoidable with aircraft) there might always be an issue, with some.

I think of it as more like a skate park than a hospital.  If the skaters are playing their music too loud, or yelling at the neighbors (hello, Greg), don’t be surprised if the city puts a padlock on the gate.

I like having an airport on on the Coastside for a host of reasons. I’d like to see some recognition by the pilots that this could be an issue.

Barry, not only does Greg have a bad attitude, but he’s proud of it.

In 1994, when I was considering purchasing my house in El Granada, very close to the airport, I had to sign a form indicating that I was aware of the proximity to the airport and the potential for noise.  Do all R.E. agents do that?  If not, why not?

Every place I’ve lived but one has been close to an airport; 2 of those locations were next to LAX.  In the Playa del Rey location noise was a major problem, but the reason that I moved turned out to be morons in the condo upstairs who thought that it was perfectly reasonable to vacuum at 4:30 am.  That was worse than the jet engine runups at 2 am.

Before deciding to buy, I stood in the street in front of this house and decided it was a non-issue due to a very low number of airport operations.  What I didn’t realize is that the Hwy 1 noise is a much bigger issue.  But I’m not running around trying to get the highway shut down.

I agree that pilots making unnecessary noise need to be penalized.  But I will fight any attempts to close this airport.  As I’ve said multiple times before, in an emergency, this airport may be our only connection to the rest of the world.

Leonard Woren - 26 January 2009 08:06 AM

In 1994, when I was considering purchasing my house in El Granada, very close to the airport, I had to sign a form indicating that I was aware of the proximity to the airport and the potential for noise.  Do all R.E. agents do that?  If not, why not?

 

No one had us sign such a form, either, when we moved into the Pillar Ridge Manufactured Home Community.  Perhaps they figured that since we could all see the airport from our park, it was a given. Nobody here complains about airport noise.  We don’t even complain about all of the noises in our ‘hood that drown out the aircraft.  It’s possible that the acoustics here on the ground differ from up on the hills.  Either that, or we’ve all been made deaf by the noises long ago.

Well it’s the weekend and I’m enjoying the beautiful weather.

I must admit as usual there are awful lot of aircraft buzzing Montara, and yes the noise is really irritating. We live three miles from the airport, is that to be considered near? What are the FAA rules regarding low flying? Is it 1000ft or 500ft ceiling? The planes that fly over Montara are not on a landing course they are sightseeing plain and simple. At what stage is the lawsuit?

Noise pollution in general is a real problem, barking dogs, open pipes on cars, aircraft etc.

I wonder if any pilots are aware of this?

http://www.co.sanmateo.ca.us/smc/department/dpw/home/0,,5562541_5562593_146636942,00.html

(sorry link since broken, it showed flight paths)

We live at Pillar Ridge, the runway is 150 yards from our mobile home but we are not bothered by the noise. Yes, it is loud sometimes, however, we knew when we moved here 14 years ago that the airport noise would always be here and so we learned to live with it. Our children quickly learned to adapt to the ‘noise’, as we did, and we are grateful to have the airport and the emergancy services it would provide in the event of a major emergancy. No matter if all the roads leading in and out are destroyed, the airport will be there for us all, thank god.

Jose, with all due respect, you made a choice to live directly next to an airport. I live in Montara, miles from HMB airport, not on any approach line. Planes fly low over Montara for fun, plain and simple. I don’t have a problem with aircraft flying over Montara (I myself have taken a flight over my house at the proper elevation and engine revs with a very responsible pilot) it’s the pilots that blatantly break the rules by flying too low then bank and turn at high revs causing noise pollution.

Kevin: I see your point with regards to those few pilots who blatantly disregard the ‘rules of the road’ on proper elevation, engine reves, etc. I have never seen an airplane cop, like some sort of ‘skyway patrol’, that could give these bad boys a ticket or fine but is that something that could be promoted? Seriously, I agree with all you say but do not think closing down our vital airport is the solution, if that’s what people want. We can’t close down the roads and highways because a few wild and reckless drivers abuse the rules of the road. Can’t ban car stereos just because some teen driver parks a few doors down the block with his gangsta rap blasting us while we try and watch a good movie, listen to some sweet jazz or whatever. I guess that finding these few pilots who disrupt folks’ tranqulity here on the coast side is very important but I wonder just how few they are. I mean, we know who the crazy, rude drivers are in our community, and we do call the cops on them when necessary, but how to catch these annoying pilots, that’s the question of the century.

Jose: I mostly agree with you, I’m not for closing down the airport, we need it for many reasons. What I don’t like is pilots breaking the law. So I did a little research, the FAA law seems to be that a 500-ft ceiling or 1000-ft ceiling be self imposed by pilots over residential areas, here are the FAA rules regarding this subject taken directly from the FAA website (I copied the relevant section):

b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

So, is Montara or Moss beach etc considered a ‘congested area’? Seems that we are certainly a town or settlement, therefore should the ceiling not be 1000-ft? Seems so to me, so I feel then that several pilots regularly break the law over our coastal towns. I understand that we are on the approach run to land, and I have nothing against flying at all, I’ve taken flights over Montara myself at well over 1000-ft I might mention (I had a very good pilot). What really pisses me off is ignorant pilots that blatantly ignore the FAA rules and buzz our towns for fun causing horrendous noise pollution and putting lives at great risk on the ground (the sub 500-ft cowboys). Mark my words, one day a law suit will happen and unfortunately every aircraft flying out of HMB may be penalized by the actions of a few bad pilots.

I urge the ‘good’ pilots to identify and self police the ‘bad’ pilots.

Kevin

Kevin… just how does one know the exact altitude of a given plane while it flys over one’s property? Are the FAA altitude regs based on sea level or what? Please inform this ‘ground hog’ with no expertise on these matters. Thanks.

Jose, There lies one of the the problems, you can only guess being as I don’t have access to a ground based radar. But if you can see the face of a pilot clearly (which I have before) I’m guessing that’s way below 500ft. The FAA altitude regs are clearly stated in (a) and (b) in my post above.

I guess though that the pilots log must record all the different altitudes flown in a flight.

I have no regrets about our decision to live near the HMB airport.  I don’t want the airport to move. 

I hope to fly myself someday.  And when I do, I expect to follow the FAA regulations regarding minimum altitude over populated areas.

The only times that I have an issue with the noise are 1) when the obnoxious pilots intentionally race their prop in order to make noise; and   2) when pilots fly way too damn low over my house.  200 ft is WAY too low for a populated residential area.  At that point, I’m far more concerned about my family’s safety than I am about the noise.

Greg Ward—By your logic, I’ll assume that you won’t mind if my buddies and I do some drag racing on the street in front of your house?  I’ll make sure that my car revvs nice & loud.

And if you don’t like the car noise, why did you buy a house that’s right next to a street?  Move!!

Just kidding, of course.  But I hope you understand my point.