Hello Coastsiders,

Having moved here just over two years ago there are still a few things I haven’t figured out yet:

Pizza. Can Californians make pizza? The pizza I’ve had here is not bad but hardly up to the best local East Coast pizza. Is there a place I’ve missed?

French Onion Dip. When I was a kid I used to eat potato chips (translation for you Red Staters: “potatoe chips”) and dip. As an adult I crave it about twice a year.

French Onion Dip, from a little 7-Eleven type store called Lawson’s. Lawson’s is gone but the dip remains a midwest favorite. The nearest thing to it is Hell-a-va Good Dip. But I can’t even find that around here—just that nasty Kraft stuff and its clones which are more “scrapes” than dips. Pointers?

Bicyclers. Sometimes called “shiny insect people.” When I’m on the beach with my camera, people who look like locals don’t smile at me, don’t wave back, and don’t talk to me. I realized that I must look like a tourist. But hiking on Montara Mountain and on the various trails I also encounter dudes on fancy bikes with glistening hi-tech protective gear. They zip by, my head nod, wave and “hello!” not only unacknowledged but pointedly ignored.

It sort of feels bad to be ignored by a guy on a $5000 bicycle wearing $1200 worth of plastic clothing. On the East Coast people have bells on their bikes and always call out “on your left!” before passing. Here there is just silence (not counting the techo-zvwoom of the aerodynamic insect person/bike combo swooshing by you, of course).

Are California bikers just rude? And why all the super-expensive gear just to go biking on a mountain trail?

Trivial questions, I know, but I’ve been wondering for months…

—Darin

I can unconditionally recommend Frankie, Johnnie and Luigi Too in Palo Alto for pizza.  But that’s a long drive from the Coastside and a long wait in line once you get there.

For pizza, I really like Papa Murphy’s (take home & bake it yourself).  Unfortunately the closest one is in the Manor section of Pacifica.

Unless you happen to be there during their peak time, there’s virtually no waiting.  I’m not sure but I think that you can call ahead to get your pizza made.  That would make your wait time there basically zero.

BTW, the best pizza I ever had was at the California Pizza Kitchen (I think that was the name) in Boston.  I didn’t realize that S.F. has more than one, and now I see that there are a few elsewhere on the Peninsula:  http://cpk.com/locations/

May not be able to get you all the way back east, but a good deep-dish, Chicago style pizza can be had from Windy City Pizza. 650-591-9457. While over the hill, they are convenient at Hwy 92 and El Camino at 35 Bover Road in the Borel shopping center. It’s the one with Longs (Northwest of the Hwy 92 & El Camino). After moving from Chicago many years ago, I shared your frustration with California pizza. Have found Windy City the closest yet. There is also Zachary’s but the are a long drive from here in Berkeley.

I’ll second Bob’s vote for Windy City in San Mateo.  If you’re up for something different, try Vicolo’s in San Francisco.  They make a Pizza with a cornmeal crust.  http://www.hayesstreetgrill.com/vicolo.html  First time I heard about it (from Mr. Parr no less) I didn’t hold out too much expectation.  Wow -when I’m wrong, I’m wrong - very tasty crust, wonderful toppings, and fresh, fresh, fresh.  Just wish they were more Local. Around here I’m a fan of Pizzeria Del Sol in Moss Beach on Highway 1 near the post office.  The make a great garden veggi pizza - we add feta and sundried tomato.  Pizzaria del Sol & Café 2350 Carlos Moss Beach (650) 728-5151

For your french onion dip question, have you thought about buying the sour cream yourself and adding the french onion powder?  It takes about 3 minutes to make and it is better than any of the canned/jarred stuff.

There are a few brands out there - so grab a few bags of chips and sour cream, pick a few onion dip powders and taste away! 

onion dip sounds really good right now!  Yum!

Stephanie Weber - 16 October 2006 08:38 PM

For your french onion dip question, have you thought about buying the sour cream yourself and adding the french onion powder?  It takes about 3 minutes to make and it is better than any of the canned/jarred stuff.

There are a few brands out there - so grab a few bags of chips and sour cream, pick a few onion dip powders and taste away! 

onion dip sounds really good right now!  Yum!

I’ve tried french onion soup powder—not at all the right taste. Too heavy. Are there french onion powders aside from the soup? I’ve tried a mix from the wonderful mail-order spice company Penzy’s—not bad but still no bulls-eye…

—Darin

There are a few others and the tastes do vary.  If it is to oniony you can add part of the packet and then add to taste.  Good luck!

Sigh. Next we’ll be hearing complaints about the lack of fall color and snow here on the coast.

I happen to use the sour cream/Liptons onion soup mix dip that I make myself as the standard to judge all that bottled stuff by. Haven’t found one I like, either.

I make my own pizza. Sometimes it’s good and sometimes it isn’t.

THE best NY style pizza in the Bay Area IMHO can be found at Arinelle’s on Shattuck in Berkeley. This is right near the Berkeley BART station, and yes, it is a long, long way to go, but man it hits the spot. Order the Neopolitan with a cup of coke, no ice. Sprinkle the by-the-slice with oregano, parmesean, garlic powder and some red pepper flakes and fold the wax paper up around the slice. Enjoy it at recently installed tables (from 1975 to about 3 years ago after a renovation, it was a counter-only establishment).  Sit out on benches near BofA next door and watch the local Berkeley color, or walk up a block and sit on the grass in front of Cal. I usually have two slices and remember what it was like to be a teenager going to school there. Mmmmmm.

I’m fond of Green Onion Dip, a couple of times a year too!  I make mine with the packets which are increasingly harder to find. I use a combination of sour cream, cream cheese and cottage cheese, in roughly equal parts. Fo most, probably leave out the cottage cheese - it makes it a bit lumpy. But this would work with the french onion packets, or I’ve also used Lipton French Onion soup mix instead. Sometimes, dip and chips can be a complete meal!

It may be a bit nonstandard for fat and salt freaks because it actually involves ingredients chosen to go together for their flavors, but It’s Italia in HMB has darn good thin-crust pizza for my taste. It bothers me to admit this because I usually avoid noisy, yuppie-style places. But fair’s fair, and their service is usually pretty good as well. (Can’t comment on their thick crust version—I haven’t tried it and am not likely to.)

Tastes will differ. I find del Sol in Moss Beach, just down the hill from our house, to be sub-par. I do agree with those who believe the average pizza parlor in Italian neighborhoods in NYC would be among the best out here. In fact, that goes for Italian food in general between the two areas. The best San Francisco pizza restaurants of my youth, places like Sorrento’s and Luigi’s in North Beach, are long gone and I don’t know if anything has come along to equal them.

For acceptably edible pizza that you can influence with your choices, try the $10 special (to go only) for a large pizza with three toppings (in addition to standard sauce and cheese) at the Manor Room in the Manor Shopping Center in Pacifica.  The list of toppings from which you choose is three or four dozen items long.

Carl May

I strongly second the recommendation of It’s Italia’s pizza, but not their service, which always seems slow to me.

Ah well…Luigi’s and Sorrento’s in North Beach (if memory serves) were the best. But that was a while ago. I’ll have to try It’s Italia’s version.

O.K., I see my quest for pizza is going to require a drive—at least now I know! Thanks…

And I see that my quest for a good french onion dip is going to require some experimentation—o.k., my test tubes are ready…

But what about the insect people?

Thanks to all who responded!

—Darin

Sorry - I stopped complaining about the pizza years ago. I just go back home to NY.

But while we are on the topic, what about BAGELS? I ate a hockey puck at Cafe Classique recently and fear having another bagel in this state. My Friends are tired of FedExing them from NY…any recommendations?

Some say it’s the water back east that makes a lot of the food taste so good. Or it could be the chefs…real Italians vs…whomever.

Can’t help on the other items but if you are up for some new stuff, try the caramelized pork at Red Ginger. That is my new favorite and is enough for two.

Sincerely,
GraceAnn

No. that behavior goes along with the alternative life style people from SF.

If you like H&H bagels, you can order them online and they will ship them to you.  I did this about 8 years ago for a promotion at work and it was a hit. 

http://www.handhbagel.com/

Enjoy!

As for the “insect people” on Montara Mountain, Darin, some are cool, some will say “hello,” some are off somewhere on their own “bicycle planet,” and some jerks are causing damage by not sticking to the roads and pioneering trails on the steep hillsides. But when we used to have a regular volunteer crew working on McNee (4th Saturday of each month), about half of them were mountain bike riders, not hikers. And they did not complain or go home when we worked entirely on footpaths or benches not used by cyclists. Walking up there almost every day, one gets to know the regulars, and only a few of them are stand-offish.

There is also the matter of women hiking or cycling alone. There have been a number of attacks on solo women on Bay Area trails over the years and at least one serial murderer who preyed in the parks. And beyond the Bay Area, quite a few female backpackers claim to be packing guns for safety. If it makes a woman feel more secure by ignoring the “hello” of a stranger, that’s OK by me.

Carl May

GraceAnn - If you don’t like risking breaking a tooth on a bagel, try Noah’s.  Supposedly they’re “New York Style”, although I wouldn’t know what that is.  There’s a Noah’s in San Mateo on 4th near El Camino, one at Sequoia Station in R.C., one in Menlo Park near ECR, one in downtown Palo Alto.  Ah, there’s a location finder on http://noahs.com .  Looks like I knew all the closest ones.

Just say No to Noah’s.  They are terrible.  They are NOT “New York Style” because they are not boiled adequately (if at all).

House of Bagels in Burlingame are the best I have had around here.  Boiled just the right amount and then baked to perfection.  Can get them very hot many times during the early morning (just ask what is coming out or just came out).

It’s Italia makes very good pizza.  I have never eaten “in” and I would only do that when it was a slow night and had time (it should not take them 20+ minutes to make a take out pizza, I do not want to know how long it takes them to make me a plate of pasta).

Best pizza?

Tomasso’s in North Beach makes incredible calzones.

Ernesto’s Italian Restaurant 2301 Clement St At 24th Ave - excellent crust.  great lasagna too.

One thing I miss most from living in San Fran is neighborhood Italian joints.  There are probably 100 of them and most of them are great.  2 or 3 in every neighborhood, reasonably priced, great staff.

My friend Jose Dutra from Coastside Hope says that Viva Itallino in Pacifica off Manor drive is the best Pizza on the Coast.  Jose is a long time resident, so I’m going to take his advice and give it a try!

Giorgio’s, at 2nd and Clement in SF, is good NY pizza.

And if the bagels at House of Bagels in Burlingame are the same as at House of Bagels in San Rafael, then they should be good, too.

The pizza quest continues!

I happened by Manor Pizza/Pizza Factory the other day—Carl May mentioned it several posts back—and gave it a try. Not bad—better than anything else I’ve had on the coast so far. (O.K., It’s Italia has good pizza but also has slow service and a yupster atmosphere, neither of which appeal to me).

I bought three slices and three sodas—huge slices, heavy with (non-greasy) cheese. maybe tpp heavy, but good. Less than $12 for all. Carl mentions their $10 special which the staff there (all Italian?) highlighted as well.

I’m gong to try them again—also the other pizza places within a stone’s throw of their place. Looks like competition might be a good thing in the pizza business.

—Darin

PS No luck on the dip yet but on yesterday’s hike up to the top of Montara mountain (failed—eight-year-old got a blister by the time we reached the access road up) we passed many bikers—all said, ‘hi,’ or chatted—except for one who slowed and stopped within five feet of us, got off his bike, gave it a look over, gazed around at the landscape and right past us, then left without so much as a head nod! Good for a laugh.

Keep working on the mountain scene, Darin. Not only does our motley little hiking bunch have the steeper hills and switchbacks named, but we assign handles to the more distinctive morning regulars: The Drug Dealer, Askew Ultra, Mr. Big Stride Sunday, etc. I won’t describe these characters to protect the innocent. Goodness knows how they refer to us.

Hikers can walk up The Wall about as fast as most bike riders in low low, so this provides a wonderful opportunity to engage them on the benefits of using machines with their attendant mechanical advantage (ha!) in the great outdoors.

If we don’t get more rain, it will probably be a feeble year for plants, though Montara manzanita has been blooming well this winter.

Carl May

Back to the pizza topic -

Having lived in Chicago for 6 years, I can vow that the best deep dish pizza in the Bay Area is from Zach’s Chicago Pizza in Berkeley. It’s as close to the real thing as I’ve tasted in the Bay Area.

It has a very good reputation among Chicago natives who now live here. In fact, a friend from El Granada drove all the way over there and back on his birthday just to get their pizza. The phone lines were so jammed that he couldn’t order until he arrived there, so the total wait and drive time was about 3 hours. He swears it was worth it.

As a Chicago native, I also am always on a question for great pizza.  I like Vicolo pizza, although it’s MUCH better at the pizzeria than from the refrigerated and freezer sections at the grocery store.  Pasta Moon makes great crispy crust pizza.  But, my favorite is Pauline’s on Valencia in San Francisco. 

—Linda

Pizza: I went to It’s Italia with some authentic Italians and they loved the pizza. So did I.
It’s not NY pizza, it’s Italian pizza. Or, you could try making your own pizza. You can buy the dough, or good crusts, then add your own toppings. I used to make the dough in my bread machine.
Insect People: I was hiking on Montara Mtn. and almost got blow away by a speeding downhill biker. I shouted out, “Hey, ring your bell or something!” or something along those lines, and the rider actually yelled back abuses at me!
Hello to strangers: Here near the Fitzgerald parking lot in Moss Beach we get tourists from all over the world. I get a kick out of saying hello, answering questions (“Where’s the Distillery? Where’s Maverick? Where can I get good pizza?”)
French Onion Dip: Yuch! I can’t eat that stuff. My mom made it from sour cream and Lipton’s soup mix. Reminds me of being 14 and Gerry and the Pacemakers, and potato chips that break and leave half a chip in the dip. Yuch!